Comments on: Vilification of international students hides the real problem in universities https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/ On politics, media, business, the environment and life Sat, 31 Aug 2024 01:16:46 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.5 By: Echidna https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/#comment-749366 Sat, 31 Aug 2024 01:16:46 +0000 https://www.crikey.com.au/?p=1169183#comment-749366 In reply to old greybearded one.

All fair enough, but to give blame where it’s due, it was John Dawkins as education minister in the Hawke government who really got this ball rolling. Under his regime the main purpose of higher education appeared to be solving the balance of payments problem. And it was he who dissolved the distinction between education,and vocational training, to the detriment of both.

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By: Metal Guru https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/#comment-746617 Thu, 15 Aug 2024 13:53:14 +0000 https://www.crikey.com.au/?p=1169183#comment-746617 “In all the talk of international student fees, for and against, any internationalist vision where it is conceivable Australian, Chinese, Indian and other overseas students might mutually gain from studying alongside one another in an increasingly chaotic, polarised and geopolitically charged world, is lost entirely.”
What Marxist poppycock!! Students are not supposed to study alongside one another. That is cheating or plagiarism at best. They are able to collaborate in class room discussion like tutorials or seminars but studying and work completion, unless it is a group project, should be done alone.

And if you want students to understand “other ” perspectives and gain a benefit from international contact, then it is teaching and the teachers that need to provide this perspective. After all, that is their job. There isn’t much you can or should learn from a fellow student. Except what they say in seminars or tutorials. Not studying alongside them copying their notes.
This is a lazy argument and analysis.

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By: Metal Guru https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/#comment-746615 Thu, 15 Aug 2024 13:45:44 +0000 https://www.crikey.com.au/?p=1169183#comment-746615 “National Tertiary Education Union (NTEU) leaders told The Guardian the pursuit of international student fees was fuelling a “culture of revenue, profit and competition”. 
But Australia’s tertiary education woes do not originate from foreign students, but from economic rationalism, decades of decay, underfunding and poor management.”

Yet you say pursuing international students is based on fuelling a culture based on profit, competition and revenue and then in the next breath say there isn’t a problem with international students. That it is everything other than that. I don’t get it. Either international students are part of the problem or they are not. You are including them in the things that are wrong and in this you are correct. Unis and governments love them. But you can’t separate their desire to study here at great expense, making them a desirable commodity as opposed to the poor local student who must feel like a leper at times, from their presence being here and crowding out local students on the basis that they are willing to pay lots of money.

It would be great to offer these things and be nice but there just aren’t the resources at the moment.

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By: Metal Guru https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/#comment-746614 Thu, 15 Aug 2024 13:39:00 +0000 https://www.crikey.com.au/?p=1169183#comment-746614 w ell of course you don’t want the focus to be on international students. You are an academic. Nothing wrong with that but be honest. Less international students means more stress on university resources and less of a potential customer base for you. Say there is a problem with overseas students and you would be out on your arse.

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By: Woopwoop https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/#comment-746569 Thu, 15 Aug 2024 08:25:59 +0000 https://www.crikey.com.au/?p=1169183#comment-746569 Vilification= defaming or speaking ill of someone. Who exactly has ‘vilified’ these individuals?

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By: Robert https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/#comment-746294 Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:18:23 +0000 https://www.crikey.com.au/?p=1169183#comment-746294 Labor aren’t prepared to face these challenges. Their entire approach to the tertiary sector since election is NFI !
Since Labor won’t fix it, nothing will change in the short to medium term, and the VCs will align with Dutton in the hope (!) of higher fees.

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By: Gonggongche https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/#comment-746256 Wed, 14 Aug 2024 00:33:35 +0000 https://www.crikey.com.au/?p=1169183#comment-746256 In reply to Gonggongche.

With appropriate numbers of educators, too.

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By: Gonggongche https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/#comment-746255 Wed, 14 Aug 2024 00:32:48 +0000 https://www.crikey.com.au/?p=1169183#comment-746255 In reply to Gonggongche.

That assumes that the universities were run as educational institutions and were staffed by appropriately renumerated educators.

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By: Gonggongche https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/#comment-746254 Wed, 14 Aug 2024 00:30:32 +0000 https://www.crikey.com.au/?p=1169183#comment-746254 It is billionaires, in general, who get the greatest return from our graduates and tertiary education system. Bring back the free education of the Whitlam government and tax the wealthy to pay for it.

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By: Drew https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/08/12/universities-commodification-international-students-nteu/#comment-746212 Tue, 13 Aug 2024 12:41:13 +0000 https://www.crikey.com.au/?p=1169183#comment-746212 Good article, and expert insight vs. outsiders claiming expertise eg. an American platformed by Koch linked CIS, which imports US approaches to education including a return to the 19thC on maths teacher training; it’s either to dog whistle international students as ‘immigrants’ &/or denigrate universities and science.

One would add that the descriptor ‘commodification’ concurs with the litertaur eof the ’80s in early years of fee paying ‘foreign students’ described as an ‘export commodity’; same nowadays describing temporary resident students as ‘immigrants’ and population numbers under the NOM that disppears their individuality or agency.

Related to university or broader higher education sector, is internal hiearchy, authority and application of Frederick Taylor’s top down ‘Scientific Management’ (used by Henry Ford et al.) for an assembly line, measuring inputs, outputs and personnel performance. Latter in academic can be tied to research articles published, but for teaching it’s ‘pass rates’ that encouarges ambitious academics to mimic the commercial management culture.

Finally, the author is a member of the NTEU, and like other unions and sectors, they could do more outreach to sessionals etc. (esp. private higher ed & regional satellites) who are treated as ‘robots’, but any whiff of union connections may be enought for a temporary contract, not to be reenwed for the next session…..

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